• Extremely American

Dr. Scott Atlas: "It's unconscionable that a society uses its children as shields"

Updated: Oct 4, 2021

Video Link - EpochTV American Thought Leaders : Dr. Scott Atlas on Experimental Vaccines

October 3, 2021: World class independent news network EpochTV hosted Dr. Scott Atlas on American Thought Leaders to cover the topic of Experimental Vaccines. The video provided offers a 9-minute segment from the Dr. Atlas interview where the discussion covered the unethical and immoral use of our children as a "shield" by a large community of gutless self-absorbed adults during this pandemic.

The transcript from the entire interview is provided below thanks to the editorial team at EpochTV.

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Dr. Scott Atlas on Vaccine Mandates for Children, Natural Immunity, and Florida’s COVID-19 Surge

“To me, it’s unconscionable that a society uses its children as shields for adults. Children do not have a significant risk from this illness… Are we [as] a society, a civilization … going to inject our children with an experimental drug that they don’t have a significant benefit from, to shield ourselves?”

(Dr. Scott Atlas - September 2021)

In this episode, we sit down with public health policy expert Dr. Scott Atlas to discuss the ethics of vaccinating children, especially given that data has shown children do not significantly spread the virus compared to adults.

We also discuss the underlying reasons behind the recent COVID-19 surge in Florida as well as the efficacy of natural immunity.

Dr. Atlas is the author of “A Plague Upon Our House: My Fight at the Trump White House to Stop COVID from Destroying America,” which is set to be released on Nov. 23.

Jan Jekielek: Dr. Scott Atlas, such a pleasure to have you back on American Thought Leaders.

Scott Atlas: Happy to be here.

Mr Jekielek: It’s been many months since we last spoke. It was in April of this year of 21 that we were speaking, and we were talking about some of the terrible consequences of lockdown policies. And we were talking a bit about Florida, where you had done an advisory for Governor DeSantis. I want to kind of dig into that a little bit.

How has Florida done? There’s been a big surge. There’s been a lot of criticism of Governor DeSantis’ policies since then. And he’s deployed monoclonal antibody clinics around as well to try to cope with some of this surge. Give us a picture of what you’re seeing.

Dr. Atlas: Sure, well, at first, I think we have to realize we’re seeing something similar to what we saw last summer, 2020, where there was, the virus spreads in sort of a geographical way. It comes and goes in waves and we didn’t ever seem to have learned from that. So when we look at the maps of the cases, we see just like last summer, we had a surge this time in the south, in Florida, Texas, and some of the Southern states, and that surge came.

It did not mean that somehow there’s a unique case spread in the South because of some other reason, because now those cases came down, and we see cases coming up in the upper Midwest and the sort of Great Lakes region and to the east of the Great Lakes just like we did last fall. So this is a cycle. We somehow don’t seem to learn much from what we’ve seen over and over and over again, but that’s what’s happened.

So in Florida, as a specific question, some of the things that have been said are completely untrue. For instance, there’s a claim that the cases are spreading because not many people have been vaccinated. I mean, this is just simply false. I look at the CDC data every single day. What we see is that Florida has vaccinated at a higher rate than the country in every single age category.

Those three categories that are tabulated are people 65 and over, all adults ages 18 and over, and total population. And in every single one of those three categories, Florida exceeds the vaccination rate of the United States as a whole. Florida has vaccinated over 95 percent of people 65 and older.

And when I say vaccinated, I mean they’ve at least received their first dose, because we know that almost everybody essentially gets the second dose who gets the first dose. So for purposes of discussion, we’ll say one dose or more—95 percent of Floridians over 65 have been vaccinated.

Three fourths of Floridians have been vaccinated who are all adults, and over 60 percent of all Floridians have been vaccinated. So that is better than the average of the United States. That’s simply untrue to make that claim.

What is the right claim is that there is a geographic wave that comes into these states. Now Florida’s performance has also been distorted. And I believe it’s for political reasons, but I don’t know, hard to say why; the answer to the question why is always difficult.

We look at Florida’s performance and we see that over the first year, the two characteristics that we should be looking at are excess mortality, which means all the deaths over the baseline that would have occurred without the pandemic. And Florida outperformed most states, two thirds of states in the United States in excess mortality increase during the year, the first year, March to March roughly.

They were outperforming the average in the nation in age-adjusted mortality, in age-adjusted mortality over 65. And you have to remember, Florida is one of the oldest states in terms of age demographic in the country. They have the second highest population of people over 65. That matters because that’s who’s at risk in this virus.

It’s not equally risky for people at all ages. Then we look at Florida comparing it to a similar state. For a similar state, we like to look at California, because these are both large states, ethnically diverse in terms of the urban to rural living situation and sort of similar climate. Although I have to admit, I prefer California’s climate much to Florida’s. I don’t personally like humidity.

So we look at the data, and we see Florida is the fifth oldest state. California is the seventh youngest by the way. So right away, California has an edge in terms of what should happen. California did very strict lockdowns and prolonged school closures and everything.

So that’s another good comparison here because Florida did the opposite. Governor DeSantis said, “No, he’s not gonna lock down completely”. In fact, he opened up widely at the end of August 2020, and opened all schools a hundred percent in person if parents wanted. And so he did not suffer the damages of those prolonged lockdowns, which are enormous.

But looking simply at the data from COVID, Florida did better than California in age-adjusted mortality from COVID. Florida did better than California in excess mortality. Florida was the number one ranking state of the 10 large states in the country in age-adjusted mortality from COVID.

You have to realize the burden to outperform is not on the states that did not do the lockdown. The burden is not on Florida to say it did better. The burden is on the other states that did the draconian measures that destroyed people, that killed people with the lockdowns, that sacrificed our children with the school closures. The burden is on them to outperform Florida.

So a place like Florida, they just have to do reasonably close to these other states. But in fact, they did far better.

Mr Jekielek: And it’s just that at the moment they’re experiencing a surge that California hasn’t experienced yet.

Dr. Atlas: Well, Florida had their surge, their surge for this surge peaked around August 15th. The cases started coming down at the second half of August. Now we’re in, say mid September at this point. And we see that the cases not only have come down in Florida and the South, but the spread, the rate of spread, the so-called R value that people talk about is very low now in the South.

It’s higher and above one, which means it’s spreading rapidly in the Great Lakes regions and the upper mountain Midwest areas. So they’re getting more cases. Florida in the South are past their cases. Now, the impact though again, you can’t be focused on cases. This is another sort of repeated mistake by people analyzing the pandemic. The question is who’s dying? Who’s getting the severe illnesses?

Getting a positive PCR test is not being sick. They’re very different things. Yet, we’ve seen this time and time again that there’s this very bizarre focus on stopping all cases of COVID when the real focus should be stopping the death, the serious damage from COVID, stopping the serious critical illnesses from COVID—the deaths from COVID.

So that’s the whole point of making sure that the high-risk people, the elderly people are getting the vaccine. That’s called targeted protection, they need it first. It’s not true that the virus is high risk for most people. In fact, it’s the opposite. It’s not high risk for most people. And particularly not for children, for instance. So we look at how things have gone in this last surge and yes, we got a lot of cases and yes, we got some deaths.

But the two things to stress is that with this Delta variant, which is the overwhelming number of cases in this recent surge, it’s less lethal than the original surges. What [do] we mean by that? Why do I say that? Because less people are dying divided by the number of cases.

Now, why are less people dying? Number one is that as we expect—anyone who knows anything about medical science, first-year, second-year medical student, as a virus evolves, it typically becomes less lethal, not more lethal. It survives by having mutations and evading the limits of the protection in the population. But with that, it usually gets less lethal.

And so we’re seeing less lethal data, less number of fatalities per cases. And it’s also partly of course, because we are vaccinating a lot of the high-risk people. That’s the goal of the vaccine.

The goal of the vaccine, a vaccine does not necessarily stop the infection per se, that isn’t the main purpose. The main purpose is to make sure people stop dying. And we are seeing far fewer people dying, considering the number of cases. And that’s true all over the world. When you look at the data in the UK, when you look at the data everywhere, in Japan, in Iceland, almost everywhere that I’ve looked, that’s what we see.

Mr Jekielek: It seems that we had a headline recently about how Governor DeSantis had reported that about half of the hospitalizations due to the virus were actually people who were vaccinated. And so there’s these questions right now about the efficacy of the vaccine.

There was a political article saying that the data that isn’t published yet from Israel is suggesting that the efficacy of the vaccines is becoming less to some extent. What are folks to make of this?

Dr. Atlas: Sure, so the vaccine story is somewhat complicated. But basically the vaccines have shown the following. Long-term, they have been so far, we’re only say, eight months into the vaccine era. Long-term, the vaccines have been highly protective against death—over 90 percent. And I’m looking at the data from Israel. I’m looking at the data from the UK.

Frankly, I’m to the point where I’m skeptical about the data coming out of the CDC frankly. I hate to say something like that, but I look all over at the data now, I don’t just blindly accept CDC data. They’ve been erratic in what they’ve said and I think we have to, we trust who we trust for a reason.

So I look at the Israel data and the UK data, and we see very good protection of the vaccines against death even now. There is no real evidence of serious waning of protection against death from vaccines. That’s point number one.

Point number two is there is evidence that people still, that the protective effect against symptomatic illness decreases over time with the vaccines. That is true when looking at the data from all over the world.

So, yes, you can get infected even if you’re vaccinated. Yes, a certain percentage of people do get a serious illness, but it’s still highly protective against death.

So that means what do we do about the durability of the immunity with vaccinated people? Because we’re interested in protection and we’re interested in durable or long-term protection. And we know the following: number one, protection against the illness is more robust and more durable, longer lasting from a natural recovery after the infection than it is from a vaccine in an uninfected individual. That is factually true and inarguable, although people try to distort that.

Why do I say that? Because of the data. The data is very good from Israel that shows that there is a 13-fold to 26-fold meaning times, more symptomatic cases in people who have been vaccinated, but never infected when they get eventually infected versus people who have had that infection in the past, never been vaccinated, they are more protected.

We never hear about this from the people who are mandating vaccines and everybody blindly saying that everyone must get a vaccine without regard for natural immunity. And this is a huge public health [issue], not just an error. It’s a disgrace really that our CDC and our White House leaders of task forces are not talking about basic immunology.

We know this is true for other viruses. We know it’s true for SARS-1. 17 years after people who have had SARS-1, we look at their blood samples and it has still robust immune response to SARS-2 that illustrates a cross protection sort of mechanism. But the point is, 17 years later.

We know from Spanish flu, 90 years afterwards, we see people have protection against that virus and immune response. This is not new ground, this is not something that’s shocking. It would be shocking to think that people who have recovered from the viral illness do not have long-term protection. That would be the shock. And everybody who’s a credible scientist knows that. But somehow we have disregarded all the information that we used to know.

So we see, there’s another point too that I would like to make about the measure of the protection. Antibodies decline after an infection over months—typically, that’s common. That’s not a cause for alarm. We don’t give a booster shot or a vaccine just to opt for it, we don’t do that on the basis of antibodies. We do it on the basis of protecting somebody from a serious illness. We’re not saying they’re proudly displaying our antibody levels. We want to make sure people don’t get sick.